He is the man all the big manufacturers want to have working for them but cannot get. He is, according to his peers, the world's best c...
He is the man all the big manufacturers want to have working for them but cannot get. He is, according to his peers, the world's best clubmaker, yet every day he builds clubs for you me and the world's best players with his Dad. He is Derek Murray of FOREGOLF.ie.
I've been wanting to sit down with Derek for ages. I get emails every day from people asking me whether custom fitting and having clubs built for them is worth the investment. I say it's a no brainer! For me the difference between off the shelf clubs and a custom fit and built set is the difference between trying to pick a coin off a glass coffee table wearing a pair of boxing gloves as opposed to using your fingers!
I caught up with Derek at FOREGOLF HQ at The Long Game Academy in Killeen Castle Golf Club, County Meath to find out what he's up to and to ask him about a few things that have been on my mind.
Follow @golfcentraldoc
Here's our Q&A
Doc: Derek, you haven't a grey hair on your head, how do you do it and what's happening?
Derek: So kind of you Donal! I'm just recovering from an epic Augusta but happiest to be back here at FOREGOLF HQ helping golfers who are thinking of investing in new golf equipment to achieve their maximum potential. They call us, book in for one hour at €100 and then we will test them with all the different brands and once they go ahead and let us hand build the clubs we recommend we will literally guarantee they will lower their handicap and improve.
Doc: People think that if they get the world's best clubmaker to hand build their clubs they will have to pay a premium. Is this true?
Derek: No way Jose, in fact it's the opposite! We are the real deal for every level of golfer and thanks to better buying direct in component from the shaft and head companies our prices are very competitive even though we are the best in the business.
Doc: This fitting room looks like something out of a James Bond movie. I think I've died and gone to golfing Heaven. What does this button do?
Derek: Don't touch that Bond! Yep, we are lucky to have state of the state of the art Trackman and Flightscope systems here. We use Flightscope for fittings at Killeen Castle as the screens and viewing interface is easier for our clients to view and understand.
Doc: How long does it take to build a FOREGOLF set of clubs?
Derek: It takes us three days from start to finish to hand build a set of irons only as our building process is more exact and everything (heads, shafts and total club) is weighed, double checked and matched to zero tolerances.
Doc: You worked on Tour Derek. Have all Tour pros been custom fitted?
Derek: Would you believe there are still a few who arrive out on Tour without much in the way of equipment knowledge. Thomas Aiken walked up to me a few years back and told me he had never been fitted. We worked together for a few days at Hoylake and I built him a beautiful set of clubs. Since then he has won three times on the European Tour; we are now good friends!!
Doc: I've seen stock golf clubs being assembled in factories. The whole process is over in minutes. How can these clubs be consistent across the set?
Derek: It’s a big problem in stock sets and also happens even from “custom” sets from the custom fit dept. in the factories. As the way the companies builds clubs is the same for stock as it is for their custom the problems are exactly the same. The issue is in the building and not so much in the “fitting“ but you know that there are many different levels of “fitting” – it’s a bit of a hijacked term!! That’s why I went and got the exclusive contracts on the heads as I needed to build the clubs so the fitting we did matched the clubs we built – if the clubs are not built right the “fitting” doesn’t really matter!! Its why we insist on building the clubs once we have done the fitting as we know the client will never be able to get what we recommend and it will reflect badly on us as a business.
Doc: I've read on forums that lots of pros sneakily swap out their favourite shaft from an old club into a new head their sponsors want them to game. Is that true?
Derek: Yes, that happens a lot to be honest and once the design and dynamics of the head work then we can do that. Tour players do that a lot as they get used to how a shaft feels and releases the clubhead so they rotate it.
Doc: Do the major manufacturers sell heads to clubmakers all the time?
Derek: Not at all. We are the only place in Ireland and there are only a few in Europe allowed to have the component heads and hand build the clubs here on-site. There are no other places that are permitted by the companies to build clubs using their heads in Ireland. We have been granted a very special license to do this and it’s how we manage to get every bit of the performance from the technology in the clubs and its why our players play better with the clubs over time. It’s how its built as well as how its fitted that’s the key to success.
Doc: As well as Trackman there are now so many products mimicking the concept of number crunching out there to help find the perfect clubs. Is there a danger people are toying with a power they dont understand?
Derek: I’ve noticed that so many places and guys have invested heavily in a Trackman or Flightscope or some kind of Launch Monitor to fit with or even more worryingly teach with but what they haven’t done is use or invest in proper real golf balls for the lesson or fitting. I also notice a large number of people looking to use one or get lessons on them. In order to be accurate and to use the information properly especially in a lesson where the difference between a few degrees is huge the machine needs a ball or ball flight to measure and produce data and “the numbers” but if the ball is dodgy ( old worn range ball or not the ball they use/play with for teaching) then the numbers and data is skewed and the information they are using is very inaccurate. Its why the guys on Tour mostly use them on the range early in the week at a tournament ( you will see the orange boxes all lined up) as the balls are usually brand new Pro-V1 or similar balls so the data is very accurate so their coaches can view the data accurately and give proper instruction. ( its why we commissioned and use a real golf ball made for us by Taylor Made that flies
just like a game ball). These machines are not completely accurate indoors either ( again why you see them on the range at the tournament) as they are “ball tracking devices” and need to “see” the ball flight so indoors is a guestimate of the ball flight as there effectively is none which again means the data is very inaccurate and the resulting clubs or lesson will also be void.
The other worrying thing is that guys think that once they buy it that’s it done and dusted – these are very advanced technological devices that started out life as complex R+D testing machines and need proper advanced tuition and in most cases will take years of training to understand how to use them and apply the information properly.
Doc: Thanks Derek and keep up the good work.
Derek: Cheers Doc and spread the good word. Its FOREGOLF.ie
I've been wanting to sit down with Derek for ages. I get emails every day from people asking me whether custom fitting and having clubs built for them is worth the investment. I say it's a no brainer! For me the difference between off the shelf clubs and a custom fit and built set is the difference between trying to pick a coin off a glass coffee table wearing a pair of boxing gloves as opposed to using your fingers!
I caught up with Derek at FOREGOLF HQ at The Long Game Academy in Killeen Castle Golf Club, County Meath to find out what he's up to and to ask him about a few things that have been on my mind.
Follow @golfcentraldoc
Here's our Q&A
Doc: Derek, you haven't a grey hair on your head, how do you do it and what's happening?
Derek: So kind of you Donal! I'm just recovering from an epic Augusta but happiest to be back here at FOREGOLF HQ helping golfers who are thinking of investing in new golf equipment to achieve their maximum potential. They call us, book in for one hour at €100 and then we will test them with all the different brands and once they go ahead and let us hand build the clubs we recommend we will literally guarantee they will lower their handicap and improve.
Doc: People think that if they get the world's best clubmaker to hand build their clubs they will have to pay a premium. Is this true?
Derek: No way Jose, in fact it's the opposite! We are the real deal for every level of golfer and thanks to better buying direct in component from the shaft and head companies our prices are very competitive even though we are the best in the business.
Doc: This fitting room looks like something out of a James Bond movie. I think I've died and gone to golfing Heaven. What does this button do?
Derek: Don't touch that Bond! Yep, we are lucky to have state of the state of the art Trackman and Flightscope systems here. We use Flightscope for fittings at Killeen Castle as the screens and viewing interface is easier for our clients to view and understand.
Doc: How long does it take to build a FOREGOLF set of clubs?
Derek: It takes us three days from start to finish to hand build a set of irons only as our building process is more exact and everything (heads, shafts and total club) is weighed, double checked and matched to zero tolerances.
Doc: You worked on Tour Derek. Have all Tour pros been custom fitted?
Derek: Would you believe there are still a few who arrive out on Tour without much in the way of equipment knowledge. Thomas Aiken walked up to me a few years back and told me he had never been fitted. We worked together for a few days at Hoylake and I built him a beautiful set of clubs. Since then he has won three times on the European Tour; we are now good friends!!
Doc: I've seen stock golf clubs being assembled in factories. The whole process is over in minutes. How can these clubs be consistent across the set?
Derek: It’s a big problem in stock sets and also happens even from “custom” sets from the custom fit dept. in the factories. As the way the companies builds clubs is the same for stock as it is for their custom the problems are exactly the same. The issue is in the building and not so much in the “fitting“ but you know that there are many different levels of “fitting” – it’s a bit of a hijacked term!! That’s why I went and got the exclusive contracts on the heads as I needed to build the clubs so the fitting we did matched the clubs we built – if the clubs are not built right the “fitting” doesn’t really matter!! Its why we insist on building the clubs once we have done the fitting as we know the client will never be able to get what we recommend and it will reflect badly on us as a business.
Doc: I've read on forums that lots of pros sneakily swap out their favourite shaft from an old club into a new head their sponsors want them to game. Is that true?
Derek: Yes, that happens a lot to be honest and once the design and dynamics of the head work then we can do that. Tour players do that a lot as they get used to how a shaft feels and releases the clubhead so they rotate it.
Doc: Do the major manufacturers sell heads to clubmakers all the time?
Derek: Not at all. We are the only place in Ireland and there are only a few in Europe allowed to have the component heads and hand build the clubs here on-site. There are no other places that are permitted by the companies to build clubs using their heads in Ireland. We have been granted a very special license to do this and it’s how we manage to get every bit of the performance from the technology in the clubs and its why our players play better with the clubs over time. It’s how its built as well as how its fitted that’s the key to success.
Doc: As well as Trackman there are now so many products mimicking the concept of number crunching out there to help find the perfect clubs. Is there a danger people are toying with a power they dont understand?
Derek: I’ve noticed that so many places and guys have invested heavily in a Trackman or Flightscope or some kind of Launch Monitor to fit with or even more worryingly teach with but what they haven’t done is use or invest in proper real golf balls for the lesson or fitting. I also notice a large number of people looking to use one or get lessons on them. In order to be accurate and to use the information properly especially in a lesson where the difference between a few degrees is huge the machine needs a ball or ball flight to measure and produce data and “the numbers” but if the ball is dodgy ( old worn range ball or not the ball they use/play with for teaching) then the numbers and data is skewed and the information they are using is very inaccurate. Its why the guys on Tour mostly use them on the range early in the week at a tournament ( you will see the orange boxes all lined up) as the balls are usually brand new Pro-V1 or similar balls so the data is very accurate so their coaches can view the data accurately and give proper instruction. ( its why we commissioned and use a real golf ball made for us by Taylor Made that flies
just like a game ball). These machines are not completely accurate indoors either ( again why you see them on the range at the tournament) as they are “ball tracking devices” and need to “see” the ball flight so indoors is a guestimate of the ball flight as there effectively is none which again means the data is very inaccurate and the resulting clubs or lesson will also be void.
The other worrying thing is that guys think that once they buy it that’s it done and dusted – these are very advanced technological devices that started out life as complex R+D testing machines and need proper advanced tuition and in most cases will take years of training to understand how to use them and apply the information properly.
Doc: Thanks Derek and keep up the good work.
Derek: Cheers Doc and spread the good word. Its FOREGOLF.ie
Contact:
ForeGolf, The Long Game Academy, Killeen Castle Golf Club, Dunsany, Co Meath, Ireland.
+353 (0)1 906 0147 hello@foregolf.ie
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